antropologi.info - anthropology in the news blog - Latest Comments on Correction (and Update): "Army-Anthropologists don't call Afghans "Savages"

Shill [Visitor] in response to: Correction (and Update): "Army-Anthropologists don't call Afghans "Savages"

Shill [Visitor] — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:59:36 +0000

http://easterncampaign.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/my-cousins-enemy-is-my-friend-a-study-of-pashtun-tribes.pdf

Benji [Visitor] in response to: Correction (and Update): "Army-Anthropologists don't call Afghans "Savages"

Benji [Visitor] — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:36:04 +0000

Hi,

I've just come across a short article (http://anthonyclarkarend.com/armedconflict/video-human-terrain-war-becomes-academic/) showing the trailer of the the new movie "Human Terrain" ( http://humanterrainmovie.com/). According to the movie's co-director James Der Derian and the website's info, the movie centers around Michael Bahia and his time in the Human Terrain System until his sudden death in May 2008. Many of the "important players" in the whole debate are interviewed, including McFate, Fondacaro, Catherine Lutz, Hugh Gusterson and Roberto González from the Network of Concerned Anthropologists, alongside Bahia's family, military personal, foreign policy experts etc.(see http://humanterrain.wordpress.com/key-participants-2/).

I certainly hope [Visitor] in response to: Correction (and Update): "Army-Anthropologists don't call Afghans "Savages"

I certainly hope [Visitor] — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:42:52 +0000

That Lorenz doesn't feel polluted by my or your posting; he can please let me know if he feels that way.

What I am saying, since reading is fun, is that if an undergraduate from Concordia, or wherever, said "Afghans are living in the Stone Age, just try talking to them about feminism!" and someone on a blog started shrieking, "OMFG Concordia anthropologists believe in Savagism and caricature all sorts of fine people!" Then that would make about as much sense as what you're claiming about HTS.

Now, am I arguing that HTS is serving itself well by providing no public face that can speak to these things, preferring to let the basket-cases of the world--Rafael, e.g.--to do their talking for them? No, I am not arguing that. But your insistence that Rafael somehow represents HTS is a wishful insistence so that, in the absence of any real evidence, your position has some support.

Maximilian C. Forte [Visitor] in response to: Correction (and Update): "Army-Anthropologists don't call Afghans "Savages"

Maximilian C. Forte [Visitor] — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:14:45 +0000

Readers, please do visit my blog, thanks. (Someone seems mistaken in thinking that I don't want readers, bizarre.) Then we can show more courtesy to Lorenz, and stop polluting his blog with the constant shift in discussion. Feel free to post on my blog too -- I won't bite, I'll just bite back.

By the way, since reading is definitely becoming a problem here, all that both Lorenz and I said was that a HTS researcher relied on savagism to caricature the so-called "insurgents". Read it, it's there. That remains a fact, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, amen.

Thanks Lorenz.

Yes [Visitor] in response to: Correction (and Update): "Army-Anthropologists don't call Afghans "Savages"

Yes [Visitor] — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:27:19 +0000

I can read. Just because Rafael was once a "former HTT," that does not mean he was empowered to speak on behalf of the whole program on the subject of whether Afghans are savages; although he in fact never does that--only you do, in your interpretation of his comment.

Readers, please visit Max's post again and judge for yourselves: http://openanthropology.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/whitewashing-a-us-war-crime-in-afghanistan-the-trial-of-don-ayala-human-terrain-mercenary/

The people who are empowered to speak to this subject at HTS do not think or write or say that Afghans are savages, nor do they support cultural evolutionism or "Savagism". Lorenz, the author of the post above, has acknowledged this with a great spirit of fairness.

Maximilian C. Forte [Visitor] in response to: Correction (and Update): "Army-Anthropologists don't call Afghans "Savages"

Maximilian C. Forte [Visitor] — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:18:19 +0000

Also, this comment from "technically" who doesn't know the technicalities, was very bizarre:

"Second, I am fairly sure that Rafael Fermoselle was not writing on your blog as a "member of HTS," since he said he was a former HTT."

First of all, Fermoselle clearly wrote: "Former member of the HTS program." I mean, can you even read?

Secondly, a Human Terrain Team is a unit that forms part of the Human Terrain System. HTS and HTTs are not separate.

I apologize for calling you a "HTS shill" previously. You clearly know too little to be a shill of any worth.

Maximilian C. Forte [Visitor] in response to: Correction (and Update): "Army-Anthropologists don't call Afghans "Savages"

Maximilian C. Forte [Visitor] — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:03:29 +0000

This is very silly. "Technically" Fermoselle calls the insurgents, "throwbacks to the Stone Age" -- sure, not "savages", just the other way of saying savages. I never said Fermoselle was an anthropologist, all I said was "member of HTS." Does it make the comment better?

Second, you changed your focus. First you spoke of how much I had written about those HTS people who were killed, compared to what I wrote about Afghans who were killed. In fact, you said: "more blog-lines on Loyd and Bhatia than on those thousands of individuals." And I am still saying: you're wrong. That's just a fact.

Finally, thanks, I also encourage readers to please visit my blog, and I thank Lorenz for his many links to it over the past two years. As for letting your ideology do your thinking for you...who are you to cast such stones when you clearly live in a tissue-thin glass house? But that's alright, it's only those who buy into HTS who, magically, have no ideology...even when they call others "throwbacks to the Stone Age." Guffaw. I am happy that my writing is the bug that is clearly up your ass. It has been my pleasure.

Technically [Visitor] in response to: Correction (and Update): "Army-Anthropologists don't call Afghans "Savages"

Technically [Visitor] — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 10:46:56 +0000

Rafael Fermoselle doesn't say that they are savages. Which was the whole point of my commenting on the original post saying that "HTS thinks Afghans are savages." Second, I am fairly sure that Rafael Fermoselle was not writing on your blog as a "member of HTS," since he said he was a former HTT. Third, my understanding from a cursory google is that Rafael Fermoselle is not an anthropologist, though I may be wrong about that.

On the number of blog-lines, you have far more on anthropologists in the military than you do on the life and death of ordinary Afghans. You know that perfectly well. Visitors to your blog (address above) can search your tags for confirmation, and I'll leave it to them.

Finally, regarding attachment and detachment, I really do encourage any readers of this comment thread to go visit Open Anthropology (address above). I suspect it won't take long for you to see that Max prefers to let his ideology do his thinking for him (the starting premise is relatively easy to identify). That is fine, and I'm sure it drives in good blog-stats from, and has given Max a name among, a certain subsection of the academic left. Good for him, but let's not mistake it for anything other than a Glenn Beck-style performance.