“The truth is you can’t talk anymore of a foreign population and a native population, as if they were enemies. As I understand myself, I am a German,” Zaimoglu says.
This is interesting and exceptional, according to my experience with second (or third) generation migrants in germany: Most of the people I ve talked to prefer to perform the non-german part of their identity calling themselves Türken, Griechen, Brasilianer, Polen and so on, while they ve been born in germany, grwe up in germany and often have one parent being german.
btw, I notice the identity issue keeps you going. :-)
Havent forgot to email you and will do. Am overoccupied with running classes and connect to the net only sporadicly these days.
“Have the Germans learned from the nazi-period and World war II?”
From my view the point here still is the Assimilation vs. Integration issue, with all its historical implications. But our dissociating Umgang with history (which creates distance) makes it nearly impossible to conceptualize our national identity anew.
Comment from: [Member]
btw, I notice the identity issue keeps you going
Well, being an immigrant myself (as a German citizen in Norway with an Arabic surname), you are faced with these issues all the time. That’s why most immigrant or minority journalists mainly write about minority issues - although they rather would write about cloths, cars or environmental issues. Reading the news here is quite frustrating. Norwegian immigration policy is quite racist - even with the new socialdemocrat-socialist government. But it might be even worse in Germany.
I meant the german identity issue. But also that is no wonder in nonindiviudual regards because media currently covers it more than usual, or is this just my subjective perpception ? The Fußball WM is the trigger with the latest Leitkulturdebatte (Muslimtest etc.) as background–my suggestion.
Comment from: [Member]
I don’t know, I don’t read German newspapers regularily, but it seems to yes - at least in German media. Here in Norway the focus is more on nazism and no-go-areas. Anyway it’s quite exotic for me to follow these German identity debates from the outside.
“that they are akin to other Latin peoples, the Germans see themselves as unique”
Sorry this is rubbish germans are not latin because german is not a roman language. Latin is respected very much but german is closer to russian, polish or scandinavian. Germans were the first to find out the indogerman root of their own (and of course other european) tongues. Germans are culturally similar mostly to austrians also to czech (look at the staticstics for beer consume). It is mostly a result of the cold war area (and of WWII of course) that germans could not find their place in europe.
“a ‘Turk who carries a German passport,’ for example. Not surprisingly, such marginalization has negative consequences.”
So americans have never accepted black people as their own as they still refer to them as african-americans. Well thats a shame of the americans (I’ve never heard the term anglo-american refering to a white)
I know many guestworkers that will not take a german passport. i think its their very right not to do this, maybe getting german citizenship isn’t easy, but i’ven erver ever seen a guestworker that wanted to become german as fast as possible (except for some russians). But as we can see those days most immigrants (even in the 2. generation) rather carry a turkish flag and support the turkish soccer team. I think it’s their very right, and i have no problem with it. They feel turkish and they want to be turkish.
“I think it’s their very right, and i have no problem with it. They feel turkish and they want to be turkish.”
yeah but the point is, why do people of turkish descent born in germany and grown up in germany, speaking german fluently, carrying a german passport do distinguish themselves from germany? I d point to othering processes. The thing is not so much changing migrants self-perception but the one of “german-germans” towards a more plural understanding of “germany". “German” for example does not mean “muslim” for many “german-germans” and this simply is a) wrong regarding contemporary facts and b) dangerous, as it implies a heavy destructive potential.
Comment from: dan [Visitor]
I would like to comment on the “African-American” comment left by an earlier visitor. This is simply NOT true. “African-American” is a term black Americans created for themselves. It is generally considered politically incorrect to call someone a “black American” (unless that person herself is black). They have wished to be called or called themselves other names at different times (Negroes; people of color; et al.) If you look at the earlier part of the 20th century, there were those who called themselves “Irish-Americans” and such. A US president in that era said he wished that immigrants would no longer be called such names; for they were ALL “Americans” (and that’s it).